{"id":13035,"date":"2021-01-19T16:57:34","date_gmt":"2021-01-20T00:57:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/?p=13035"},"modified":"2021-04-13T16:31:41","modified_gmt":"2021-04-13T23:31:41","slug":"interviewed-by-forbidden-futures","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/2021\/01\/19\/interviewed-by-forbidden-futures\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview: How to Be a Cult Underground Writer"},"content":{"rendered":"

In November, 2020, the awesome SF and horror writer Cody Goodfellow <\/a>interviewed me for the punk. funkadelic, and visually stunning online zine Forbidden Futures<\/em>.<\/a> And now I\u2019m running the interview as a blog post. Photos are from around Santa Cruz and Los Gatos, with the cool art ones mostly from the Box Shop<\/a> art space in San Francisco. And hats off to those artists.<\/p>\n

If you want to read more interviews with me I have a full “All the Interviews” on my writing page<\/a>…and it includes 440 questions with answers.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Q 1. <\/b>You work was part of the original cyberpunk movement, and you use many c-punk tropes, but your outlook and philosophy seem anomalous. The freaky, witty chracters in your Ware Tetralogy <\/a><\/em>rebut any stale notion that cyberpunk is be a Genre of Things. I worry that our society is resisting any grand psychic leap forward\u2014and that they\u2019d prefer for cyberspace be a digital mall. How do we change the channel and revive c-punk\u2019s revolutionary promise?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A1. <\/b>Yes, I never do quite fit in, even when I\u2019m with a band of outcasts! Each of the original cyberpunks was different, and so it remains. I definitely relate to the point you\u2019re making. There\u2019s a worry that the golden promise of cyberspace, that is, the happy Tomorrow of internet and AI\u2014there\u2019s a worry that it\u2019s been coopted by the Pig, the Man, spyware, big biz, the data miners, and the spammers. One fears the frontier has been tamed and made ordinary. But that might not be true.<\/p>\n

As a writer, your one power over the world is to depict realties that are in line with the way things should be<\/em>. Or realities that reflect the way things really are<\/em>. Even though these truer realties may not be widely recognized. I like to depict smart, empathetic characters doing wild and crazy things. There are plenty of people like this\u2014I meet them all the time in my variously intersecting circles of mathematicians, writers, hackers, hipsters, computer people, and artists. But you don\u2019t necessarily see these people in many of the books and movies and videos out there.<\/p>\n

If you write about the world as you feel it should be, or like it secretly is, you encourage disaffected readers to hang in there, to stay strong, to be themselves, and keep on the path to the hoped-for Tomorrow.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Q 2. <\/b>One distinctive feature in your work is the glee that permeates even your more pessimistic stories. So much SF takes itself too seriously\u2014unless it\u2019s marketed as farce or satire. How important is it that your work amuse you?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 2. <\/b>Good question. I\u2019m constitutionally inclined to pepper everything I write with jokes, wordplay, satire, surreal surprises, oddball characters, crazy dialog, and meta humor. Even when I\u2019m dead serious. I always think of a famous letter from Galileo to his fellow astronomer Kepler. \u201cMy dear Kepler\u2026 what shall we make of this? Shall we laugh, or shall we cry?\u201d\u009d He was writing about some problems with pigheaded burghers. Sure you can cry, but maybe it\u2019s nobler to laugh? Or, maybe even better, it\u2019s good to laugh and <\/em>to cry. That\u2019s an accurate depiction of life, right?<\/p>\n

I also appreciate your distinction between being gleeful and writing farce. I don\u2019t want my work to veer mere silliness, with my elbow thudding into your ribs. I respect SF too much for that. And I think things are more deeply funny when they\u2019re sad and serious at the core.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Q 3 <\/b>Your take on artificial life and AI stands out from other treatments. You resist viewing robots, biots, or software agents as cold, drab entities determined to crush or to exploit us. Instead you endow your robo critters with humor and soul, setting your work apart from other SF\u2014with the exception of the divine and supernal Futurama<\/em>. Like, why shouldn\u2019t <\/em>robots be cooler, funnier, and more playful than humans! Might it be that the capacity to rebel and to joke are true hallmarks of artificial intelligence?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 3. <\/b>Well, erudite and well-spoken as you are, Cody, you\u2019re almost answering your own questions while you ask them. I learned how to write about robots from my boyhood hero and eventual mentor Robert Sheckley. Such a wonderful man, such a great genius. He had it down from the start: Write about robots as if they\u2019re people! That\u2019s all it takes. And since they aren\u2019t really <\/em>people, you can make their personalities and dialog entertainingly quirky and bizarre.<\/p>\n

Where does Hollywood get that thing of having AI minds be, like, stiff dull faces on screens who talk in Brit monotones and write in ALL CAPS? This is a complete failure of the imagination. Maybe film makers settle for AI characters like that because they\u2019re frightened by the thought of truly intelligent robots and computer minds\u2014and the fear makes them freeze up? Or maybe they want to preemptively belittle these artificial beings who might, god forbid, be superior to them?<\/p>\n

Or maybe Hollywood’s AI characters generally suck because normals have an anti-intellectual hatred for anything involving math, CS, or science.\u00a0 They look at a robot, and they want to say, \u201cSure you\u2019re good at math, bit-brain, but I can pee in the yard. And I can dream about a cow!\u201d\u009d But our cyberpunk\u00a0 robot might answer, like, \u201cI am peeing a super-coolant onto you right now. Once you are frozen solid, I will use Hilbert space quantum operators to transform you into the very cow of whom you dreamed. And thy name shall be Elsie Evermore.\u201d\u009d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

(Quilt by Sylvia Rucker.\u00a0 Her quilt page.)<\/a><\/p>\n

Q 4. <\/b>I\u2019ve heard veteran SF writers express befuddlement over finding themselves in a future that renders their early dreams quaint. I think of Gibson abandoning cyberpunk to write \u201cfuture is now\u201d\u009d technothrillers, and Neal Stephenson\u2019s Baroque Cycle<\/em>. Is it harder to peer into the future as one grows older?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 4. <\/b>I think I\u2019m finding it easier. When I was younger, there was a certain default space-opera future that SF was supposed to be about. And cyberpunk was about breaking out of that. Fuck the Space Navy! Misfits doing crazy shit, that\u2019s where it\u2019s at.<\/p>\n

And Gibson is still doing that very well. His Peripheral <\/em>and Agency <\/em>are so colloquial that they look easy. But they\u2019re primo, out-there SF. For me, Bill will always be royalty, up there with Burroughs, Pynchon, and Borges.<\/p>\n

Over the years, I\u2019ve gotten past being jealous of Bill\u2019s success. I mean, he\u2019s a friend, and also he deserves the sales. In reality, I\u2019ve done pretty well too. Better than I expected as a raw youth. I used to nurse that less-than-famous writer\u2019s dream of future veneration\u2014a dream that\u2019s like believing in Heaven, or Santa Claus. I\u2019ve let that dream go. Even if it happened, what good would it do me when I\u2019m dead?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

I\u2019m just glad I can still write at all, here and now\u2014and be read. And if I get a real publisher with a real advance that\u2019s great. And if not, I\u2019ve learned how to do a Kickstarter to get some money for the book, and how to self-pub paperback and ebook editions. I don\u2019t know if everyone realizes that you can actually do that for free. It took me awhile to figure it out. I call my imprint Transreal Books<\/a>. So either way, I get my books out there. I won\u2019t shut up.<\/p>\n

Back to your question. For me, stuff like space-travel feels used up. Unless you were to do the space travel in a car instead of in a spaceship\u2014like I did in my recent Million Mile Road Trip<\/a><\/em>. But there\u2019s so much that\u2019s untouched. Biotech has endless possibilities, and there\u2019s ubiquitous physical computation, and the hylozoic notion that everything is alive. See my pair of novels Postsingular <\/a><\/em>and Hylozoic <\/a><\/em>for more about that.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

And I keep wanting to write about that totally new <\/em>thing that we know someone is going to discover in the next hundred years, and I keep not quite getting there, but by dint of making the effort to think that hard, I\u2019m finding new stuff. Not actual \u201ctrue scientific theories,\u201d\u009d but fun ideas like new kinds of wind-up toys. The store is big.<\/p>\n

For decades I read Scientific American <\/em>to keep an eye on what\u2019s new. But sadly they\u2019ve turned to shit\u2014small fonts and articles about\u2014gak<\/em>\u2014sociology and political policy and economics? As if. Nowadays it\u2019s enough to keep a loose eye on Twitter, and see the wonders trundling past\u2014like a holiday parade that never ends. Grab hold of anything you see\u2014and tweak it a little bit, and make it your own. Connect it in some way to your actual personal life\u2014that\u2019s the move I call transrealism. And go a little meta\u2014that\u2019s a trickier tactic I\u2019m always trying to master\u2014flip your idea up a level, and into something having to do with states of consciousness, or with the nature of language, or with the meaning of dreams. Go further out. There\u2019s still so much. We\u2019re just getting started.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

(Isabel Rucker with her recent octopus mural at the Box Shop art space in SF.)<\/p>\n

Q 5. <\/b>What is your modus operandi for describing the indescribable? Whether or not you\u2019ve ever actually spelled this out, my impression is that the weirder the subject matter gets, the plainer and more transparent you like your prose to be.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 5. <\/b>Back in 1982, in Lynchburg, Virginia, we had a good friend named Mary Molyneux who was pretending to graduate from college, even though really she hadn\u2019t. It was a goof. Mary and her husband David Abrams had a graduation party and they asked me to give a talk. I spoke on \u201cThe Central Teachings of Mysticism.\u201d\u009d You can find a free browsing edition online<\/a><\/p>\n

In my talk, I said the Central Teachings are: (a) All is One, (b) The One is Unknowable, and (c) The One is Right Here.<\/p>\n

The secret of life is shouted in the street. You grasp it as an instant big aha. But if you try and analyze it, you bog down. So when you write about it, the simpler and quicker the description, the better. Short words hit hard.<\/p>\n

As an SF writer, I come up against this issue over and over again. I want to treat my readers to something like a come-shot or a titanic fireworks display when a character gets to some unprecedented new level. I\u2019ll offer them a giant fractal, a brain flash, sudden obliteration, a paradox, a fugue state, a song, a wave of emotion, or a burst of heartfelt love\u2014I\u2019ve used them all. I\u2019m anxious when I need to put on an event like this, but I\u2019m also glad. It\u2019s something to do.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

(Isabel’s octopus again.\u00a0 Small copies for sale<\/a>!)<\/p>\n

A complicating factor here is that, since The One is Unknowable, I can\u2019t predict what kind of weird scene is <\/em>going to come down when my character does something like, say, merge with the meta mind of the entire web. Or step outside of spacetime. Or become a shoelace. But I have to frikkin write something<\/em>! So, I don\u2019t know, I space out and let my fingers to the talking. Fold in some odd object that I saw that day, a piece of dream I had the night before, a treasured old emotion, and a random surreal construct. It doesn\u2019t matter. Use any old thing, several of them at once. Surrealism tells us that everything fits, always. All is One. And you\u2019re not in control.<\/p>\n

And no, as I\u2019ve said before, I\u2019m not <\/em>on drugs when I write like this. I haven\u2019t used anything for more than twenty years. But even so, I\u2019m high. On the natch. I didn\u2019t use to realize it, but I\u2019ve always <\/em>been high, and I always will be. The One is Right Here.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Q 6. <\/b>I chanced to see a photo of one of your copy-edited typescript pages\u2014it was a print-out overlaid with a flurry of bewildering scrawls. I\u2019d like to hear how this chaotic process works.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 6. <\/b>That\u2019s been my work flow or over thirty-five years. Write a few pages on my computer, print them out, mark them up with a pen, type in the changes and write a little more\u2014then repeat.<\/p>\n

I do the computer work in a trance, seeing the scenes like I\u2019m awake in a dream, getting deeply into the minds of my characters and into the rhythms of their speech. When I\u2019m in this zone, I\u2019m not at all thinking about my day-to-day problems.. I like that a lot\u2014forgetting myself. That\u2019s one of the reasons I like to write. It\u2019s a way to be blank and high.<\/p>\n

Having typed for a few hours, I print what I have, two-sided on a few pages of paper, fold the sheaf in four, put it in my pocket, go somewhere like a caf\u00c3\u00a9 or, in these plague times, to the woods or to a bench in a park. Get out the sheaf and start marking it up with a pen. I like to use a Pilot P-700 Gel pen with a fine 0.7 tip\u2014I\u2019ve been using them for maybe twenty years, I buy boxes of twelve at a time.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

My handwriting isn\u2019t very legible, and I\u2019m not even trying all that hard to make it legible, when I\u2019m copy editing, because if I don\u2019t wait too long, I\u2019m going to be able to remember what the edit was. The marks are maybe a little like graphic prompts. But if I really strain, usually I can decipher them, and if I can\u2019t\u2014<\/em>well then I make up something that\u2019s probably similar. It\u2019s me, either way.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Anyway, after I do the marking up, then I find up my laptop, if I can, and sit on a couch with my marked up sheaf, typing in the changes. Or maybe I sit or stand at my desk\u2014I have a motorized Geek Desk with adjustable height. In the process of typing in the corrections, rather than precisely copying the notes, I might revise a passage extemporaneously, sometimes adding new stuff, and sometimes jumping to other spots in the manuscript to make things match.<\/p>\n

All of this takes awhile, but there\u2019s not a huge rush. When I finish a novel, I\u2019ll just have to spend a blank, uneasy year writing occasional stories and waiting to start another novel. If there is <\/em>another. Usually, before I start another novel, I have to get to a psychological point where I truly, deeply, believe I\u2019ll never write again. I give up, and I accept that I never really was a writer at all. I was faking it for all those years. And now it\u2019s over. And then, and only then, the Muse stops by. And she\u2019s like, \u201cSo you admit you can\u2019t do it alone? About time. Let\u2019s get started.\u201d\u009d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

I should mention that a nice thing about my work cycle is that if I save a marked-up print-out for the next day, then the process of typing in the corrections in the morning might get me going on the actual writing again. As any writer knows, a big part of the process is avoiding writing<\/em>. What did we do before email and the internet? I seem to recall taking walks. Anyway, anything that nudges me back into the manuscript is of use.<\/p>\n

When things are going really, really well\u2014which is at most ten or twenty days a year\u2014I don\u2019t bother with the print-outs and the mark-up. I just open up the file on my computer and begin revising and adding new things\u2014 as fast as I can, jumping around almost at random, writing in different spots as the spirit moves me, like a sped-up stop-action construction worker\u2014because I have so many things that I want to say, and so many scenes I want to see happen. On these days, I\u2019m like a Donald Duck who\u2019s found a treasure chest in a cave, and he\u2019s dragged the chest out to the beach, and he\u2019s letting the gems stream through his fingers. Wak<\/em>!<\/p>\n

That\u2019s another of the reasons I write. To get a few days like that.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Q 7. <\/b>How about your celebrity-cloned meat products notion from Freeware<\/em>? Is that your intellectual property? The idea stuck with me, and I did a horror comic on the subject a while back.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 7. <\/b>Yeah, Wendy Meat. She\u2019s the wife of the Software <\/em>stoner-hero Sta-Hi, who\u2019s now evolved into Senator Stahn Mooney. The tank-grown meat product is Wendy\u2019s sideline. Big billboard of her by the beach in Santa Cruz, displaying her haunch. They\u2019re all together in my omnibus, the Ware Tetralogy<\/em><\/a>. By the way it looks like I\u2019m once again going to sell a movie\/TV option on the series so it may yet hit the screens before I die. We\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n

Last week on Twitter, it said the black rapper who supported Trump, he wants to sell salami with meat grown from his DNA. A lotta good eatin\u2019 in thar, my friend.<\/p>\n

Don\u2019t blame the future on me<\/em>! I just work here<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

(Another work by Isabel Rucker.\u00a0 A “Swiss knife” for writing, crafted to my interests. Infinity, cellular auomata cone shells, saucers, robots, the Mandelbrot set, A Square of Flatland, and a Zhabotinsky scroll.)<\/p>\n

Q 8<\/b>. What\u2019s your next novel?<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

A 8. <\/b>It\u2019s called Juicy Ghosts<\/em>, and it inolves teep, or telepathy. I\u2019ve been thinking about it for awhile and I started the actual writing early in 2019, with a story or chapter called \u201cJuicy Ghost,\u201d\u009d which I went on to revise a couple of times. By now I\u2019m six chapters and seventy-five thousand words into Juicy Ghosts<\/em>, and I think I\u2019ll finish early in 2021. I think I only need one more chapter, but with these things I never know. It\u2019s always up to the Muse..<\/p>\n

Juicy Ghosts <\/em>is about near-future commercial telepathy, digital immortality, politics, and computation as part of nature. I don\u2019t have the energy to describe the plot in detail here. This interview is already rather self-indulgently long. For now, I\u2019ll just point you to a version of the \u201cJuicy Ghost\u201d\u009d <\/a>chapter that I posted on my blog, the month before the 2020 Presidential election. I was hoping it might make a difference. And, who knows, maybe it did.<\/p>\n

An odd thing is that, while I\u2019ve been working on Juicy Ghosts<\/em>\u00a0<\/em>over the last two years, I\u2019ve been dealing with the possibility that the current President might win a second term. In Juicy Ghosts<\/em>, to transrealize it over the edge, a very similar type of President is about to be inaugurated for a third term.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

And now, here in January, 2021, in the real world, the man we\u2019re talking about didn\u2019t <\/em>win a second term at all. So Juicy Ghosts<\/em>\u00a0<\/em>is suddenly a bit like a historical novel\u2014rather than being the frantic call to arms that it was. Personally I\u2019m very glad for this turn of events\u2014that is, I\u2019m glad for the reduction of my daily life\u2019s stress and horror.<\/p>\n

Along those lines, to make the synchronicity weirder, for the last month I\u2019ve been working on a final chapter of the book that in some ways echoes the Capitol riot.<\/p>\n

There must be some way out of here, said the joker to the thief<\/em>, as Bob Dylan puts it in his song. All Along the Watchtower<\/em>. Jimi recorded a great version too. Somehow that song, or its vibe, relates to the my yet unkown climax to Juicy Ghosts<\/em>, altough I’m not sure how, not yet. For now that line is a augury, passed to me by the Muse. I need to listen to the song a few times this week, maybe twenty times.<\/p>\n

The cold wind by the watchtower.\u00a0 The chords of Doom.\u00a0 Ploughmen dig my herbs. You and I have been through that, and such is not our fate. We must not speak falsely now, the hour is getting late.\u00a0<\/em> That dread, End Times feeling I got on Jan 6, seeing what Kevin D. Williamson later called\u00a0 “the studio audience form Hee-Haw<\/em>” looting the Capitol.<\/p>\n

Will my news-contaminated Juicy Ghosts<\/em>\u00a0<\/em>work as a contemporary SF novel? I think it will\u2014in fact I think it\u2019ll be more fun to read not. It\u2019s be the cautionary tale of a narrow escape\u2014with tastes of the unrelenting nightmare reality that peeked out to stare us in the face. If our country hadn’t righted itself in time, my novel would sting too much to be enjoyable to read.\u00a0 If the people in the book won, we want to have won too.<\/p>\n

Bill Gibson went through a variant of of this flipflop when he wrote Agency<\/em>, expecting Hillary to win in 2016, and then she didn\u2019t\u2014and he needed to change his thinking about his novel in certain ways. Fortunately for me, the evil President was <\/em>in fact already ousted in Juicy Ghosts<\/em>, so the book fits snugly with our happy post-election world. Things are turning out better than I expected.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Thanks for the great questions, Cody, and good luck with your cool work! Thanks also to Mike Dubisch and Dan Ringquist at Forbidden Futures<\/em>!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In November, 2020, the awesome SF and horror writer Cody Goodfellow interviewed me for the punk. funkadelic, and visually stunning online zine Forbidden Futures. And now I\u2019m running the interview as a blog post. Photos are from around Santa Cruz and Los Gatos, with the cool art ones mostly from the Box Shop art space […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-13035","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13035","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13035"}],"version-history":[{"count":28,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13035\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13191,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13035\/revisions\/13191"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13035"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13035"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.rudyrucker.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13035"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}